Spanish Abertis DTT Sat @ Hispasat 30W - Chat & How to guides

[Stevenvc19]

Just found a recent news article

España nunca decepciona: retrasado el encendido del primer canal nacional en 4K

Descubre la fallida transición a la TDT 4K en España: Problemas técnicos retrasan las emisiones regulares de La 1 UHD. ¡Lee todos los detalles aquí!

www.adslzone.net

 

[Oskar3]

There is no mention of La 1 UHD.

TVE UHD and TVE UHD 2 are test broadcasts. They have their own mux.
La 1 UHD will broadcast on the RGE2 multiplex.

you can probably watch La 1 UHD on either TVE UHD or TVE UHD 2 but it is not the official broadcast. the test broadcast is only available in some large cities in Spain.
the “REAL” La 1 UHD broadcast will only start when the RGE2 MUX is cleared out with the switch of CLAN HD to RGE1 and the switch off of the SD television channels in Simulcast.

so step by step
1) switch of SD simulcast
2) with the free space that’s left after the SD switchoff change tv channel CLAN HD from RGE2 to RGE1
3) after the switch of CLAN HD the RGE2 mux has enough free space to start broadcasting La 1 UHD.

normally SD switchoff was in the night of 5 to 6 February so that on the night of 6 to 7 February Clan HD could swit to the RGE1 mux and at the same time La 1 UHD could start broadcasting on the RGE2 mux.

the SD switch off has postponed due to technical difficulties. We don’t know when this will happen. We only know the deadline is 14 February.

keep An eye on the SD channels on Hispasat, Only AFTER they disappear, the La 1 UHD channel may appear.

Conclusion: When La 1 UHD starts broadcasting officially, it will be on RGE2 which is channel 41 in the Madrid region. Like you can see on the website you mentioned.

Hard to believe that lack of foresight when they’ve been on tests since 2022, at least.

Does Hispasat not have free transponders to operate one free and then turn off the other???

 

[Stevenvc19]

Hard to believe that lack of foresight when they’ve been on tests since 2022, at least.

Does Hispasat not have free transponders to operate one free and then turn off the other???

Watch my post #1621.

Post in thread 'Spanish Abertis DTT Sat @ Hispasat 30W - Chat & How to guides'
https://www.sat-universe.com/index....30w-chat-how-to-guides.306087/post-2037271406


the problem is not Hispasat.
the problem is free capacity on the limited frequencies of the DVB-T MUXES.

ABERTIS TDT-SAT is in fact not a platform build for direct to home reception. It is the main FEED for the terrestrial network in Spain.
everything happening on the ABERTIS Hispasat frequencies is in function of the terrestrial network.
the terrestrial frequencies are very scarce. Every couple of years the telecom industries with their 3G, 4G, 5G, 6G, 7G,… internet connectivity keep taking away free space from the frequencies that once belonged to Digital terrestrial Television.

you Will see that in the future ( like this summer) probably more changes are required on the Spanish DVB-T network. Because the second UHD channel of RTVE will also appear to broadcast more of the Paris olympics in UHD.
I can only imagine but my guess is that the Private Spanish MUXES will also have to undergo some sort of “defragmentation“ to use the Maximum bandwidth as possible. I guess the TV channel DKISS will have to move from RGE2 to another Private mux to make place for this second UHD channel.

only to say that it isn’t all that easy to reorganise such things.
I agree however 100% that the planification of the SD switch off (and all the delays it brings with it) is the result of poor planning, communication and pre-testing.

 

[Oskar3]

Watch my post #1621.

Post in thread 'Spanish Abertis DTT Sat @ Hispasat 30W - Chat & How to guides'
https://www.sat-universe.com/index....30w-chat-how-to-guides.306087/post-2037271406


the problem is not Hispasat.
the problem is free capacity on the limited frequencies of the DVB-T MUXES.

ABERTIS TDT-SAT is in fact not a platform build for direct to home reception. It is the main FEED for the terrestrial network in Spain.
everything happening on the ABERTIS Hispasat frequencies is in function of the terrestrial network.
the terrestrial frequencies are very scarce. Every couple of years the telecom industries with their 3G, 4G, 5G, 6G, 7G,… internet connectivity keep taking away free space from the frequencies that once belonged to Digital terrestrial Television.

you Will see that in the future ( like this summer) probably more changes are required on the Spanish DVB-T network. Because the second UHD channel of RTVE will also appear to broadcast more of the Paris olympics in UHD.
I can only imagine but my guess is that the Private Spanish MUXES will also have to undergo some sort of “defragmentation“ to use the Maximum bandwidth as possible. I guess the TV channel DKISS will have to move from RGE2 to another Private mux to make place for this second UHD channel.

only to say that it isn’t all that easy to reorganise such things.
I agree however 100% that the planification of the SD switch off (and all the delays it brings with it) is the result of poor planning, communication and pre-testing.

Again I have read all the parrafada that comes to say that the distribution of terrestrial signals of DTT, not all by the way, are made through Hispasat. What’s new is that I haven’t heard about it yet. But this doesn’t answer my previous question. Thank you anyway.

 

[Stevenvc19]

Again I have read all the parrafada that comes to say that the distribution of terrestrial signals of DTT, not all by the way, are made through Hispasat. What’s new is that I haven’t heard about it yet. But this doesn’t answer my previous question. Thank you anyway.

Indeed not all the Spanish DTT channels are distributed by Hispasat. local and some regional tv stations are being fed to the transmission site via fibre optic link. those are the “exceptions“ they don’t need to be relayed to some smaller dvb-t transmitter sites which only have a satellite connection.

Hispasat has enough transponder capacity to add maybe an extra 100 or so tv channels. But in this case it has no use to add those UHD channels to an extra transponder on Hispasat because the bottleneck are the DVB-T Frequencies in Spain. There is not enough space for extra regular DVB-T transmission because of the lack of frequencies.
those UHD channels are for DVB-T networks only. We, the Satellite hobbyis, nor the TDT-SAT user in Spain has the right to watch these channels over the Satellite Transmission.
we are just lucky to receive these channels because the national dvb-t network needs to be fed via a satellite connection And we know how to ”watch from the sideline”

does that answer your question or do I misunderstand your question?

EDIT: I wrote”Hispasat has enough transponder capacity to add maybe an extra 100 or so tv channels. But in this case it has no use to add those UHD channels to an extra transponder on Hispasat because the bottleneck are the DVB-T Frequencies in Spain. There is not enough space for extra regular DVB-T transmission because of the lack of frequencies”

I mean: at the moment it has no use to add the UHD channels to an extra transponder. they will become available on an existing or a new transponder in the future. That is for sure, but first those SD channels need to close. Cellnex who is in charge of the national DVB-T distribution needs to shut down those SD channels, make changes to the DVB-T MUXES and after that they add the UHD channel

 

[Oskar3]

Indeed not all the Spanish DTT channels are distributed by Hispasat. local and some regional tv stations are being fed to the transmission site via fibre optic link. those are the “exceptions“ they don’t need to be relayed to some smaller dvb-t transmitter sites which only have a satellite connection.

Hispasat has enough transponder capacity to add maybe an extra 100 or so tv channels. But in this case it has no use to add those UHD channels to an extra transponder on Hispasat because the bottleneck are the DVB-T Frequencies in Spain. There is not enough space for extra regular DVB-T transmission because of the lack of frequencies.
those UHD channels are for DVB-T networks only. We, the Satellite hobbyis, nor the TDT-SAT user in Spain has the right to watch these channels over the Satellite Transmission.
we are just lucky to receive these channels because the national dvb-t network needs to be fed via a satellite connection And we know how to ”watch from the sideline”

does that answer your question or do I misunderstand your question?

"There is not enough space for extra regular DVB-T transmission because of the lack of frequencies.".

This is what I do not understand, that there is no space when they have been using it before...

 

[Jose67]

"There is not enough space for extra regular DVB-T transmission because of the lack of frequencies.".

This is what I do not understand, that there is no space when they have been using it before...

The DTT reception service via satellite includes all the channels that are currently being transmitted in DTT at the national level and the regional ones that adhere to the project.
It acts as a relay to the terrestrial ground transmitters.
That space may refer to the UHF band,
after all that's what TDT is.
when reading about TDT Spain don't automatically think about tdtsat.
It more often about what is happening on the ground.

 

[Stevenvc19]

"There is not enough space for extra regular DVB-T transmission due to lack of frequencies".

This is what I do not understand, that there is no space when they have been using it before...

you are correct they are using all the space right now! You can’t add something extra because all the space is used.
let me tell you this theoretically.
the terrestrial network as it is today, with all the existing HD channels AND SD channels uses 100% of bandwidth. You can’t add an extra UHD channel because there is no room for it.
imagine a bucket that is 100% full of water.
The bucket contains all the existing tv channels In one dvb-t multiplex. And you know there are several tv channels which are broadcasted as well in HD as in SD. We call this “simulcast”
let’s say those SD channels represent 20% of water in your bucket. But you don’t need them because they are already available in a superior quality we call HD. so just throw away the SD channels and you gain 20% of free space in your bucket.
now imagine one bucket is one multiplex. For example RGE2.
that means you have several ( I think 5 or 6 or so) multiplexes / buckets that are filled with water and where you can throw away a little bit of water when the SD channels close.

now you have several buckets that are not completely full of water so you take one of the buckets and distribute the water over the remaining buckets so that all buckets are 100% full and one bucket only has a little bit of water left. In that bucket now you can add extra water from your tap - which is the new UHD channel- until also that bucket is eventually 100% filled up.


on terrestrial network you can have maybe - like I said 5 or six 6 buckets of water.
on satellite you can have 20 buckets of,water. But you can’t get all the water from your 20 satellite buckets into your 5 or 6 terrestrial buckets

 

[Oskar3]

you are correct they are using all the space right now! You can’t add something extra because all the space is used.
let me tell you this theoretically.
the terrestrial network as it is today, with all the existing HD channels AND SD channels uses 100% of bandwidth. You can’t add an extra UHD channel because there is no room for it.
imagine a bucket that is 100% full of water.
The bucket contains all the existing tv channels In one dvb-t multiplex. And you know there are several tv channels which are broadcasted as well in HD as in SD. We call this “simulcast”
let’s say those SD channels represent 20% of water in your bucket. But you don’t need them because they are already available in a superior quality we call HD. so just throw away the SD channels and you gain 20% of free space in your bucket.
now imagine one bucket is one multiplex. For example RGE2.
that means you have several ( I think 5 or 6 or so) multiplexes / buckets that are filled with water and where you can throw away a little bit of water when the SD channels close.

now you have several buckets that are not completely full of water so you take one of the buckets and distribute the water over the remaining buckets so that all buckets are 100% full and one bucket only has a little bit of water left. In that bucket now you can add extra water from your tap - which is the new UHD channel- until also that bucket is eventually 100% filled up.


on terrestrial network you can have maybe - like I said 5 or six 6 buckets of water.
on satellite you can have 20 buckets of,water. But you can’t get all the water from your 20 satellite buckets into your 5 or 6 terrestrial buckets

I’m messing with the water. Hispasat has 54 transponders in Ku and Ka band. How many are occupied 24/7, half?

 

[Oskar3]

By the way, a story about space.

Hispasat

Operador de satélites de telecomunicación que realiza distribución de contenidos audioviduales en español y portugués en Europa y Latino América.

www.hispasat.com

 

[EnoSat]

I’m messing with the water. Hispasat has 54 transponders in Ku and Ka band. How many are occupied 24/7, half?

If CELTEX/ABERTIS/... pay for capacity, Hispasat will give it to them.
But if they don't have a place in TDT, that capacity is useless to them. You know that TDT has already lost two dividends that it had to hand over to mobile operators.

 

[Stevenvc19]

I’m messing with the water. Hispasat has 54 transponders in Ku and Ka band. How many are occupied 24/7, half?

Here you can check all transponders. The "feed" transponders are probably not 24/7 in use.

Hispasat 30W-5 at 30.0°W - LyngSat

 

[Stevenvc19]

If CELTEX/ABERTIS/... pay for capacity, Hispasat will give it to them.
But if they don't have a place in TDT, that capacity is useless to them. You know that TDT has already lost two dividends that it had to hand over to mobile operators.

exactly

 

[Oskar3]

If CELTEX/ABERTIS/... pay for capacity, Hispasat will give it to them.
But if they don't have a place in TDT, that capacity is useless to them. You know that TDT has already lost two dividends that it had to hand over to mobile operators.

But they suppress SD channels.
Then the problem is not on the sat.
In fact, they changed the mux of Cat channels overnight without problems.

 

[Stevenvc19]

But they suppress SD channels.

indeed. between now and 14/02 they will/should close them down.

 

[EnoSat]

I’m messing with the water. Hispasat has 54 transponders in Ku and Ka band. How many are occupied 24/7, half?

PS: Hispasat has many more transponders available on 30W
(After the new year, he turned off quite a few data transponders, apparently they switched to optics)

 

[Stevenvc19]

there could already be a sign of La 1 UHD. On the Terrestrial Network it takes the place of TDP HD on RGE2.

 

[pipino]

all done now La UHD 1 is on Air ..all this noise for 10Mbps !!

 

[maxilive]

It must be a true full HD with upscaling to UHD...

 

[Stevenvc19]

I can confirm for all the Enigma2 receivers: TdP HD moved to La 1 SD Madrid (RGE1)
La 1 UHD started broadcasting on TDP HD (RGE2)
so no need to make specific reconfigurations. you just need to adjust Channel names and picons if in use. Mind you I already made a Picon for La 1 UHD here somewhere on this thread!