FPGA

[dale_para_bajo]

I move here to keep FPGA talk separately.

Original post where at k2tset thread http://www.sat-universe.com/showthread.php?t=299771

At the moment I was introduce to FPGA Solution. We were presented with a low cost development base on

...
I use Altera Cyclone V E A9
1 chip running 32 cores @200Mhz clk will do a complete search in about 12Hours ... using about 15 Watt..

more explained here: http://www.sat-universe.com/showpost.php?p=2036787932&postcount=48

And closest developer board found on net was Arrow BEMICRO CV A9 it contains a "Cyclone E 5CEFA9F23C IC FPGA 224 I/O 484FBGA "

You can find electronic stores selling chips. Now the problem is that I can not find a developer board that is made with a "Altera Cyclone V E A9".

So I ask any one if they have a similar solution. A low cost FPGA that can work Fast 200Mghz and that has similar resources.

Help is very appreciated.

 

[dale_para_bajo]

Upss! I am starting to find a second obstacle. Designing/Develop Software.

See many knows already me. 1rst of all I am paranoid.
But I am also against any rule imposed that force its way. That is the main reason for hating MSmicrobuls__it. Yes GNU type of guy. But there are many other companies that have selected this obsessive impose behavior.

Well at first view it seems that to work with FPGA you need to forcedly use proprietary software. Bad but maybe we can handle it. But it seems that the software may be free for lower grade FPGA but in the $2000 range per YEAR to be use in Hi-End devices!! HAHAHAHAHA.

This seems that very soon I will see many messages like "To continue Accept This", then follow the "To continue upgrade this". Then I know I will see my PC slowing down and running all kind of unnecessary background programs and the unexpected behaviors.

Now I am starting to understand why such value devices are not been use on popular demand. Now that they have grow and surpassed CPUs and GPUs in the last years.

 

[K2TSET]

Good with a separate FPGA thread since there might be many questions.

FPGA development are normally only for specialist, and if you are a big company with 1000 people who develop advanced equipment you are for sure willing to pay to get support on the dev platform.

There are "light" version of software also often called "web version" where no license are required.
Those platform typical only support the small / mid size FPGA.

Also both Win and Linux are supported
https://www.altera.com/products/design-software/fpga-design/quartus-prime/download.html

Those downloads normal have the base software and then you add in the device you need.

But for older devices you will need older base software, typical found in an archive

It's huge download's typical a few GB so be sure you download what you need.

You can have multiply different version installed and I'm not understanding that you will be having a lot of hidden background stuff running when not in use.

They do have a "Talkback" function for error feedback which you can dissable.

Let say you get it installed, then start with small stuff... 1 input connected to 1 output and see it works

You will see long compile times special when the software do fit the design into the chip, since it will try many combination to get best result.
A full design using a complete FPGA can take several hours on a fast PC, be warned

Back to what chip to go for... it 's up to what you find fit you money.
For starting you can have $50 MAX10M08 dev boards where you can learn lot all and it can hold a few BF cores, but it's up to you
https://www.altera.com/products/fpga/max-series/max-10/design-tools.html


I have for long time been thinking if it would be and idea to have a board developed by a board manusfactor with 4 x CV A9 on 1 board, but since it will sure cut 12 h to 3 h it's not so impotent for me.

The 10 sec version would require like 4000 chips... there is a need for a smarter solution

 

[dale_para_bajo]

Intel is already acting like microsoft for long time. You have to agree with their rules. Rules that almost 100% of people do not read. Just go to the page of Alrera offered here. In less time that you peal an egg you will be ask to agree with their rules!! And you are just looking at the main page of their corporation. HEHEHEHE.

Now I search for the reason as why Intel purchase Altera and found it. As Intel has fail to get a piece of the Cellular CPU market this is it new strategy.

Arm is the mayor provider but Arm do not manufacture, they license. So companies like Samsung will designed their cellular CPU with the latest ARM and inside same chip will add custom needed extra chips.

Intel can not allow companies to do that as Intel manufacture its CPU. So its new solution is to add FPGA along side their new Cellphone CPU so that companies like Samsung do not have to worry about extra support ships as they will be able to implement them in FPGA area of new Intel chips.

So Altra is a changing company even if you like to think about the old one. Their main objective is Intel support of embedded CPU now. So you can bet at least less devises will have ARM cpu inside in the future. Not that is important to you I know. But my point is their main objective now is Intel support. So I guess this last 3 days where not a waist of time as I am learning on the market.

 

[C0der]

How about the kit for $30?
10M08 has 8K LEs and 378 Kb Block memory.
That will only do one core, and even that will be tight, right?
And at what MHz?

 

[K2TSET]

How about the kit for $30?
10M08 has 8K LEs and 378 Kb Block memory.
That will only do one core, and even that will be tight, right?
And at what MHz?

Very tight, I will try to see if possible

 

[K2TSET]

I did made some test on MAX10M08
It was very hard to fit BF in the chip.

What we need for 1 core of BF
BC: 56 rounds of 8x8 registers and 6 x 2 input XOR logic + S-Box
56 x 8 x 8 = 3,584 registers
56 x 6 x 8 = 2,336 Logic blocks
56 S-box = 1/2 M9K ROM = 28 x M9K Roms

For the pipeline of the key we will need 56 x 64 registers = 3.584

for the SC:
32 rounds of 107 register = 3,424
12 rounds of 104 register = 1,248
SC Logic like around 6,000 logic

and then some stuff for chk-sum add, serial interface, result etc.

So we nice fit would be like around 12,000 registers and 9,000 logic LUTS

The M08 chip do have:
504 block of ALM witch have 16 4bit LUT and 16 registers
total 8064 registers and 8064 logic LUT with 1 output and 42 x M9K

I had to make a lot of compromises

The compiler are pretty clever so for the key pipeline it convert the
the missing register to the leftover M9k's

In the SC I "only latches on every 3. stage to save registers (it reduce the f.max)

I was missing an ekstra BF core to test a key candidate so I had to find a way to send a key candidate round in the system again but with some new SC data... takes some registers and logic....and constantly I ran out of registers.

Final it find a test key's so it does work

Family MAX 10 FPGA
Device 10M08SAE144C8GES
Timing Models Advance
Total logic elements 8,057 / 8,064 ( 100 % )
Total combinational functions 5,861 / 8,064 ( 73 % )
Dedicated logic registers 7,033 / 8,064 ( 87 % )
Total registers 7033
Total pins 16 / 101 ( 16 % )
Total virtual pins 0
Total memory bits 59,015 / 387,072 ( 15 % )
Embedded Multiplier 9-bit elements 0 / 48 ( 0 % )
Total PLLs 1 / 1 ( 100 % )
UFM blocks 0 / 1 ( 0 % )

When a chip is so full the performance will fall

The f.max reported 100Mhz and it get's to hot and will need cooling if used for longer time, I also tried 150Mhz... it worked but again it get very hot. running at 50Mhz does have a nice temperatur and sure does work.

Conclusion... M08 only give 1 core and at let's say 100Mhz it will take 32 days for a full search.

So if someone out there wants to start playing FPGA the M08 are to small you should at least go for the M50 to start somewhere

I just saw there is a new M50 board from Terasic MAX 10 DE10-Lite board for $85
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?**********English&CategoryNo=13&List=Simple

Moving to Cyclone V you will get 6 input LUT with 2 outputs which will give much more resources.