New BISS algo? (TESTCA @ 7°E)

nautilus7

VIP
Messages
607
No, I am saying exactly what you just said...

Let's enjoy the 5-10 years we still have and who knows what happens then.
 

digi_knarf

Banned
Messages
119
No, I am saying exactly what you just said...

Let's enjoy the 5-10 years we still have and who knows what happens then.

But there will be less to enjoy from year to year. But there won't be any real highlights in BISS-E in 3 - 5 years. At ericsson you can buy packs in soft and hardware form. If it is easier to upgrade to BISS-CA, it will be faster. And ATEME is a pioneer in such things. Similar to novelsat.


We need to break these technologies and n*s we need master colibri to return!

What is colibri supposed to do? Think first! Already the jump from 48 Bit to 64 Bit is not solvable and what should it do with dynamic 128 AES.
 

kebien

Registered
Messages
1,329
Weren't you the one who wanted to "hack" tandberg V3 at the top of his voice? Where is the result?

Not one of the new encryptions of the last 10 years is open ... not one! So stop with such speeches. What do the mistakes of the 90s of the manufacturers have in common with the current encryption standards? NOTHING!

Nautilus ... you don't understand. The providers have to buy new hardware bit by bit. Is that so hard to understand? This will take a few years. The next time tests will take place. Currently 3 tests ... next year around time 30 and so on. Such a change will take many years and BISS-E will broadcast simultaneously.
Novelsat and BISS-CA will make sure that it gets dark in 5 - 10 years. Nobody speaks from one day to the next.

You should find out which encoders are capable of BISS-CA at the moment. Only the latest revision of the Ericsson RX8200 and the Kyrion CM5000 from ATEME have the embedded. All others have not yet.
I guess you are confusing me with someone else.
Top of my lungs? hehe,since when I cared for tandberg?

Going with your rethoric : nothing from the last 10 years is broken,and still this and other forums are up and running with a lot of participation.
I think you are wrong and all you said has been said before.
The doomers are gone,and we all still here.
Computing power grows at gigantic steps,may happen that 128 bits in 5 to 10 years becomes reasonably approachable.
But what are we talking about when this new biss has little to do with older biss ?
I guess you must also account the fact that security grows but gets obsolete faster too.
Maybe in 5-10 years all that is not breakable today can be cracked.
Who knows,but for sure doom is not coming soon.
Enjoy the trip,one day it will all end,but not as you think will happen.
No one that predicted doom was right so far,they all thought they nailed it,they disappeared over time,maybe just tired of waiting to say "I told you so".
 

digi_knarf

Banned
Messages
119
Kebien ... you have no idea, especially not how encryption companies work today and what guarantees they have to give ... but pretend so.

I'll wait for the 128 bit hacker in the distant future :D.
 

kebien

Registered
Messages
1,329
We'll see.
Last doomer said the end was coming one year ago,and I said to come back an year later to see if he was right.
Here we are now.
I invite you to revisit this thread next year,to see if everything ended as you are stating.
Not a challenge,just to have a better idea of what "end forever" means.
I don't pretend to know or have an idea,I just see the history behind.You can too.
 
Last edited:

Martin.Wigston

Registered
Messages
969
digi_knarf posted this back in 2017

The encoder manufacturers also adapt their hardware with software packs... so that in a few years, as with Ericsson, you will find no more C8. Colibri had already described this.

But we still get c8's in fact nothing much has changed since he posted that, he likes to be a "doomer".
 

digi_knarf

Banned
Messages
119
You don't know @Martin.Wigston any better than kebien. There are many more encoders today than there were before, where there is no C8 anymore. Just because you don't recognize the difference and the number, it's still the same. Nobody spoke from now on. The EBU is very slow, but it will come.

I'm still looking forward to you super 128bit hackers :thum:.
 

skynick

Registered
Messages
13
Weren't you the one who wanted to "hack" tandberg V3 at the top of his voice? Where is the result?

Not one of the new encryptions of the last 10 years is open ... not one! So stop with such speeches. What do the mistakes of the 90s of the manufacturers have in common with the current encryption standards? NOTHING!

Nautilus ... you don't understand. The providers have to buy new hardware bit by bit. Is that so hard to understand? This will take a few years. The next time tests will take place. Currently 3 tests ... next year around time 30 and so on. Such a change will take many years and BISS-E will broadcast simultaneously.
Novelsat and BISS-CA will make sure that it gets dark in 5 - 10 years. Nobody speaks from one day to the next.

You should find out which encoders are capable of BISS-CA at the moment. Only the latest revision of the Ericsson RX8200 and the Kyrion CM5000 from ATEME have the embedded. All others have not yet.

As i know only Director5 is still unbreakable because of the the nature of the system in which satellite receivers are been paired with the CA systems using their UID or MAC addresses.
The same procedure is been used for Biss-E but a Biss-E key is still generating by contributors.
 

kebien

Registered
Messages
1,329
You don't know @Martin.Wigston any better than kebien. There are many more encoders today than there were before, where there is no C8 anymore. Just because you don't recognize the difference and the number, it's still the same. Nobody spoke from now on. The EBU is very slow, but it will come.

I'm still looking forward to you super 128bit hackers :thum:.

And you suppose to know better?
I guess is easy calling people ignorant to justify your OPINION (which is as much misinformed as ours).
You do not speak from a knowledge stand point either,in my view you just have a need to be right.Is evident.
And one day you might be,just not now,nor in the next 5-10 years.
Let's us enjoy,would you?
 

digi_knarf

Banned
Messages
119
But we still get c8's in fact nothing much has changed since he posted that, he likes to be a "doomer".

That night you missed smart C8 finder. That's why everyone had to look into the tube while boxing.

Also the barney ... who always thanks you for such postings as yours ... was not to be seen. Always the same.
 

campag5242

Feed Hunter
Messages
2,582
I have some empathy with digi_knarf's position - if I'd invested huge resources to build the original rainbow tables, I'd be unhappy too. But today's tech means the investment in time required to create tables for a 48bit keyspace isn't so great.

The response from the EBU was to recommend plaintext padding etc - and still those encoders remain secure against RBT attacks today. Only the magic BISS-AU system is able to derive the key for those, as far as I know.

So who is to blame for the move to 128 bit keys? Prolific posting of keys derived from RBT, or this magic BISS AU, breaking even "secure" BISS-1 feeds?
 

digi_knarf

Banned
Messages
119
@Barney - why did you delete your derailment again? Others have already read it.


So who is to blame for the move to 128 bit keys? Prolific posting of keys derived from RBT, or this magic BISS AU, breaking even "secure" BISS-1 feeds?

You can guess three times :D.

Do not worry ... all right. Some people shake their resources easily from their sleeves. The current BISS will be there for quite a while, for real events but not for long ... the successor of this will be open to anyone hobby hacker. https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2019/07/18/ateme-and-eurovision-services-trial-watermarking-solution/
 

kebien

Registered
Messages
1,329
Historically,providers react to commercial developments,and not so much to public ones.
When they refer to "piracy" they generally mean establishments that show their content illegally for a profit,or sell boxes with the premise to open their channels.
The idea to find someone responsible for providers to react and change their security is just moot,since they could just simply upgrade even when they are not compromised,as following an schedule already programmed from the beginning.
Again,is moot to blame public developments that makes no profit.Is mainly those that turn something public in a market when providers move.
 

campag5242

Feed Hunter
Messages
2,582
You can guess three times :D.
Well, for my third guess, I realise I had omitted brute force of the 48-bit keyspace. I know of no other attack vectors :(.

Anyway, glad to have prompted another post from you, only 100 or so in four years. This watermark innovation mentioned in your post is obviously against commercial copying of feeds: I don't care if there's a small visible/invisible artefact on screen :)
 

kebien

Registered
Messages
1,329
If watermark is inserted in video in IRD,for sure it would never be a problem for any emulator,given an emulator is possible.
I doubt the provider embed a watermark in video from origin.
Just trying to understand this thing myself : ECM must carry a descriptor that tells the ird to overlay a message (watermark) in an specific case.
or does it work any other way?
I doubt provider send 2 video pids one with watermark and one without,right?

So,the solution to watermark is to disassemble firmware to find the link to overlay,or revert back to older firmware without this function.
Please educate me,at least we could read something useful in this thread for once.
 

ViaHussun

Donating Member
Messages
4,097
Hello guys.
I have recorded this feed for a while, trying to find the C8.
7.0°E 11022_H_7200
I got the following:
Code:
PID: 200h  B8h-Crypt8:3C FC 42 DE E2 70 84 9A  [O] Count:14145
PID: 200h  B8h-Crypt8:22 52 EE 93 31 A2 D1 0F  [E] Count:6935
PID: 200h  B8h-Crypt8:9A 38 70 8D 5C 95 AB 27  [O] Count:5377
PID: 200h  B8h-Crypt8:9F BE E2 B9 1C 99 DB 90  [E] Count:3144
PID: 200h  B8h-Crypt8:BC B6 9F 82 51 9F 9F 97  [O] Count:2001
PID: 200h  B8h-Crypt8:4D 7E FF B3 30 FB 4B 46  [O] Count:2
PID: 200h  B8h-Crypt8:96 50 82 0E 8B DD CC A6  [O] Count:2
PID: 200h  B8h-Crypt8:EF 59 23 AB 3A FF FF 84  [E] Count:2
No one is a valid C8 (B8 or 08...)
Vplug and other EMU's say it's BISS, but ECM is not fixed.
Is there anybody who knows what it is???


TESTCA.ts sample HERE


Infos



 

dankargo

Donating Member
Messages
98
I think its more likely we'll find broadcasters switching to fibre before they switch to BISS2.
 
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