end? -BISS-CA Conditional Access Mode for BISS2

KWP

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The only way to confirm is to post a full TS,or the CAT and PMT packets to analyze.(better a full TS,though)
But I thought we were coming back here in june 2019,no need to update this thread until new biss is spotted somewhere,pointless to talk about it.

Well, Barney can tell the story much better than I do, but AFAIK the feed started as a regular BISS feed, we even had the correct key just as usual.
Then, 5-10 minutes before the actual event started, the transmission rebranded itself (new service ID and new provider), the known key went down, and after that, while it was still BISS of some kind, the regular methods only threw up a lot of fake positives, thus the real key couldn't be found. In the end, none of us was able to watch the actual broadcast.
Next day (Smackdown) the exact same thing happened, so it wasn't some kind of a technical problem, or a one time only thing.

Given the fact that this feed broadcasted by WWE exclusively to themselves (from the arena to the production studio), so there wasn't a whole wide list of recipients, it is easily possible that the WWE has obtained some new hardware, and since the transmission was broadcasted only to themselves, they could easily use the new format, without worrying that others doesn't have the new equipment.
Reading the EBU guidelines (turn on the scrambling systems only 5-10 minutes before going live), this behavior also fits with the new recommendations.

So while it's only a speculation, given the known facts it could easily be one of the first sights of the new encryption system. Add to this the fact that WWE always have been paranoid of it's feeds, and they also have the money to buy cutting edge new technologies.

This is just speculation on my part, but I think we might just saw the new BISS2 in action.
 
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nautilus7

VIP
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607
I would appreciate a full ts recording of this feed (the next time it's active). If the recording contains the part before and after the encryption "switch" it would be perfect.

You can mail it to the oscam emu email in case I miss it here.
 
T

thefatty

Yes goodbye to motorised dishes, dreambox etc.

Why exactly? Encrypted biss feeds are just one small part of owning a motorised dish system or a 'dreambox'. There's a shed load of FTA channels and feeds out there. 5w is a good example. A encryption system going dark doesn't change the outlook for true enthusiasts and hobbyists.

And FLOL at at people on here thinking that some keys posted on a forum for fun/educational purposes would stop the progression of the encryption system. The amount of money they loose from the handful of people that enjoy this hobby is not even worth their time thinking about. The concerns are with countries/companies intercepting the signal and distributing it to a larger audience, as it has always been. Things on that scale are what causes damage their profit margins and make progression feasible.
 

harshy

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736
Since that last post we’ve made progress I’m sure, I’m the new oscam has the new “b*ss”
 

kebien

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1,329
Since that last post we’ve made progress I’m sure, I’m the new oscam has the new “b*ss”

Not really,what was tested is a way to setup the CA device in receivers to handle AES128.
Not a single biss2 feed has been spotted and nobody knows how they will implement biss2 until they start using it.
Just 20 short of a year since the first posting of doom,no sign of biss2 yet
 

Stefan2k16

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44
Are there any commercial receivers that support this new BISS2? If not, then I doubt you're going to be seeing much of it in use yet. There has to be some way for the intended recipient to receive the feed on the downlink side. So, if no commercial equipment is out yet, or very little commercial equipment is out there, it's unlikely anyone will be using it yet. Of course, technology marches on and there will always be newer more secure systems. However, I honestly think, at this point, a greater threat to the FTA hobby is the move to IP based distribution systems using things like Fiber and 5G. That means they don't even need to put up a satellite feed. Broadcasters love that because it saves them a ton of money. Putting a satellite into orbit costs a lot of money and the operators of those satellites must recoup that cost by charging a lot for transponder time. Installing fiber may initially cost a lot but over time it pays for itself and eventually becomes a huge savings. Bottom line is that Fiber is probably at a much higher risk of rendering your satellite equipment useless than BISS2.
 
T

thefatty

There is a lot of the work that only have communication via satellite, so i dont think that will be a problem for a while either. Also satellite is technically more reliable than a shared fiber link.
 

kebien

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Are there any commercial receivers that support this new BISS2? If not, then I doubt you're going to be seeing much of it in use yet. There has to be some way for the intended recipient to receive the feed on the downlink side. So, if no commercial equipment is out yet, or very little commercial equipment is out there, it's unlikely anyone will be using it yet. Of course, technology marches on and there will always be newer more secure systems. However, I honestly think, at this point, a greater threat to the FTA hobby is the move to IP based distribution systems using things like Fiber and 5G. That means they don't even need to put up a satellite feed. Broadcasters love that because it saves them a ton of money. Putting a satellite into orbit costs a lot of money and the operators of those satellites must recoup that cost by charging a lot for transponder time. Installing fiber may initially cost a lot but over time it pays for itself and eventually becomes a huge savings. Bottom line is that Fiber is probably at a much higher risk of rendering your satellite equipment useless than BISS2.
If there were enough room in fiber for everyone to use,all would use it,but is not the case,specially transoceanic links.There is a LOT of IP data using satellite hoops,simply because your satellite receiver only pickup signals that follow DVB rules does not mean the rest of the bandwidth in the satellite is not being used,there is probably more internet traffic in every satellite than video channels you can get.
There is never a shortage in satellite bandwidth.

There was always a risk of the satellite hobby would disappear,it just didn't and there is no sign it will,despite other methods of broadcasting.

Biss2 is just another encryption that is even closer to what we've been handling for 25 years (EMM-ECM),is not a risk of anything.
The point is that the motion is to upgrade CSA (to CSA3),or use a different common encryption (AES128) that would be unbreakable using the computing power we have today.
They surely know it can be cracked,but will take time to do it in a practical time.(we are still trying to find CW in real time for CSA,and is maybe some years away power wise)
The upgrades to 128 bits CW is the problem we will be facing,not fiber.
 

kebien

Registered
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1,329
Are there any commercial receivers that support this new BISS2? If not, then I doubt you're going to be seeing much of it in use yet. There has to be some way for the intended recipient to receive the feed on the downlink side. So, if no commercial equipment is out yet, or very little commercial equipment is out there, it's unlikely anyone will be using it yet. Of course, technology marches on and there will always be newer more secure systems. However, I honestly think, at this point, a greater threat to the FTA hobby is the move to IP based distribution systems using things like Fiber and 5G. That means they don't even need to put up a satellite feed. Broadcasters love that because it saves them a ton of money. Putting a satellite into orbit costs a lot of money and the operators of those satellites must recoup that cost by charging a lot for transponder time. Installing fiber may initially cost a lot but over time it pays for itself and eventually becomes a huge savings. Bottom line is that Fiber is probably at a much higher risk of rendering your satellite equipment useless than BISS2.
If there were enough room in fiber for everyone to use,all would use it,but is not the case,specially transoceanic links.There is a LOT of IP data using satellite hoops,simply because your satellite receiver only pickup signals that follow DVB rules does not mean the rest of the bandwidth in the satellite is not being used,there is probably more internet traffic in every satellite than video channels you can get.
There is never a shortage in satellite bandwidth.

There was always a risk of the satellite hobby would disappear,it just didn't and there is no sign it will,despite other methods of broadcasting.

Biss2 is just another encryption that is even closer to what we've been handling for 25 years (EMM-ECM),is not a risk of anything.
The point is that the motion is to upgrade CSA (to CSA3),or use a different common encryption (AES128) that would be unbreakable using the computing power we have today.
They surely know it can be cracked,but will take time to do it in a practical time.(we are still trying to find CW in real time for CSA,and is maybe some years away power wise)
The upgrades to 128 bits CW is the problem we will be facing,not fiber.
 

ElNancio

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18
Anycase seems more likely many providers are not fully ready to implement Biss-Ca in next months. I could see a major problem the ones who switched to fiber or Ns3-4 for example (which is already happened)
In the last 5 years i saw many feeds for local tv disappearing one by one (eg C4 france) but still on air in some manner as it could be seen on the main channel
 

kebien

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1,329
Almost 2 years since this thread started and many came with the usual doom speech.
But in fact,nobody knows.
Is going to take time,for sure,but is not imminent like some pretend to assert.
 
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