end? -BISS-CA Conditional Access Mode for BISS2

An abreviated version of the EBU BISS2 spec with pictures for us dummies: https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3292.pdf

Assuming BISS CA use EMM/ECM it become the same as any other encryption,so why keep the "basic interoperable" moto? is not anymore.Marketing maybe?

But moving away from CSA is what will make them un-hackable for a while.
If I remember correctly,current chipsets are able to handle AES encrypted video so not that drastic hardware change needed,but CSA3 also uses AES mixed with their own cypher,and unless this chipsets have this implemented can't be used.
I doubt they will allow the build of CI modules as they were key to everything we enjoy today.

Interesting reading in all the papers.
Who really knows when all this is going to change,but surely are drastic changes.
We should still understand it was not meant to last even this long,if your house got robbed,you imagine you install an alarm the very next day,this people got hacked and did nothing about it for years,and some of what they did didn't last long either.

The providers and rights owners were indeed forced to do so. Due to the mass spreading of CWs here they had to act. Worldwide, but especially the asians, but also others have taken the CWs and thus also earned money. I can understand the EBU. She had to act.

kebien ... you're telling downright nonsense. Only one point alone ... from 48 bits to AES 128 bits is not a significant change for you. In the past there were always wannabe hackers ... who had the big rattle. The reality proves every time again that they had nothing on it. The industry is always better. You will not be able to do anything!

Call me an encryption ... that had an update in the last 10 years ... and the wannabe hacker have reopened!

The new system first has to be integrated into the hardware. Apparently. That's why it will take a long time. Just track the manufacturer and see when it's implemented. Then the first tests begin.

digi_knarf said:

The providers and rights owners were indeed forced to do so. Due to the mass spreading of CWs here they had to act. Worldwide, but especially the asians, but also others have taken the CWs and thus also earned money. I can understand the EBU. She had to act.

kebien ... you're telling downright nonsense. Only one point alone ... from 48 bits to AES 128 bits is not a significant change for you. In the past there were always wannabe hackers ... who had the big rattle. The reality proves every time again that they had nothing on it. The industry is always better. You will not be able to do anything!

Call me an encryption ... that had an update in the last 10 years ... and the wannabe hacker have reopened!

The new system first has to be integrated into the hardware. Apparently. That's why it will take a long time. Just track the manufacturer and see when it's implemented. Then the first tests begin.

Click to expand...

Maybe you do not understand what I wrote ,while is clear.
I said chipsets today can handle AES,meaning no change in chipsets,the manufacturers are already using hardware that handle 128bits keys,and I won't be surprised if some chipsets can handle CSA3 alredy.....did I say hacking 128bits keys is possible? NO !!!...so,what did you read?
You blaming me for you do not read well?
I know you have some axe to grind with me,not sure why.

Where I am,in the past 10 years providers changed cards and some were open first,then later shared,until they start sending people to jail for continuously reading their cards : you can call them secure when there is nobody still free (out of jail) that can open them,or the ones that can,they extort and make their life a ruin....or they are afraid to attempt it for this reason.

I think you are wrong in the sense you think I have no idea of what I am talking about,but you are not saying that different than what I am saying,in fact,is the same.
I am just putting things into context : one day,TV will go black,that's a given,you have to know it and understand nothing can be done about it from the beginning,and just go with the flow,enjoy the trip,rather than worry about the finish line you have no say when it will be.

The only way this can get you this mad is if you have commercial interests and this will suppose a blow to your income,which will be deserved since everything commercially sold is based in public information.

When do you finally call the encryption technology of the last 10 years ... which had an update and then opened again! You claim that and do not name any examples! The cards exchanges of the last 10 years are 100% secure! I do not know where you're from, but I do not believe you.

The respective right holders and the EBU as an organization have made a mistake. They would have had to fight the permanent CW release and lock up the responsible people. They have underestimated the insolence of the duration cw published.

But now the EBU is reacting and in the medium term is calm. Forever. If the bug had remained in a small circle as a hobby ... the EBU would not have done anything. Why, too.

There's nothing more to say about that.

@digi_knarf the cat was let out of the bag around *7* years ago, with the publication of the rainbow table attacks against CSA. The EBU got their wake-up call *then*.

For sure the spreading of keys here, and elsewhere, may have hastened the development of BISS-2, but it was inevitable from the first publication of those attack vectors, only hastened by the publication of tools & tables exploiting those vectors.

campag5242 said:

@digi_knarf the cat was let out of the bag around *7* years ago, with the publication of the rainbow table attacks against CSA. The EBU got their wake-up call *then*.

For sure the spreading of keys here, and elsewhere, may have hastened the development of BISS-2, but it was inevitable from the first publication of those attack vectors, only hastened by the publication of tools & tables exploiting those vectors.

Click to expand...

A publication of the bugs is a matter. One for the illegal use another. It was about 5.5 years ago when there was the first version of an RBT. The EBU is big and powerful. She could have prevented this from spreading afterward and must.

It only became mass-produced when colibri put all the tables online. I think it was 2.5 years ago.

Sky has also switched to Tandberg V3 quite quickly. That could EBU technically also. But they are very lethargic and that's why it took longer.

I'm sure ... that more than 95 percent of all common CWs have come from here and been written off. Over the next few years, the leecher and permanent publishers will receive the receipt.

In say 5 years time the true hobbyists will still be excited by a BISS-1 handball feed from Bosnia or elsewhere. Only those with a vested interest will complain.

expect the ebu ns4 hypermux's to be the first to support it.

Yes. First produce hardware and then probably the big events will be affected first of all. The problem is ... that all rights holders must first be completely equipped with new hardware (if there is not a software option, which I do not believe) and that costs a lot of money.

I'm curious if there are possibly 2600 and 2610 simultaneously.

And hillbilly handball, etc., there will probably be a little longer in the BISS-1. Or the majority is wrong and it's faster. Will show the time.

digi_knarf said:

Yes. First produce hardware and then probably the big events will be affected first of all. The problem is ... that all rights holders must first be completely equipped with new hardware (if there is not a software option, which I do not believe) and that costs a lot of money.

I'm curious if there are possibly 2600 and 2610 simultaneously.

And hillbilly handball, etc., there will probably be a little longer in the BISS-1. Or the majority is wrong and it's faster. Will show the time.

Click to expand...

People differ from your reasoning and no reason to get mad about it.
No matter how mad are you about making information public as rainbow tables and other encryptions were,the fact that it was not up to you to decide it,makes me happy.And made this forum and others what they are today.
So let go the anger,nothing anyone ever did,even hiding the hack,would have avoided the change.(because you will never know if hiding it would have make the hack goes on forever,as you seem so adamant to point out,you are not talking facts,but something you believe in,not necessarily would happen )

For example,if you study the paper just a bit you will find out the question to symulcrypt 2 biss versions are not really possible,since Biss2 keys are dynamically changed in the stream,while Biss1 session key last the whole session and is manually inserted,it could never keep up with the changes by phone or mail.
Very simple to see that CA 2600 and 2610 cannot symulcrypt,as Biss1 cannot symulcrypt with any other dynamic encryption,as you have never saw something like that before.
But only one scenario would fit the requirement : if the dynamic Biss2 become constant CW,and in a sense,defeating to purpose of testing Biss2.

nah,nothing of what you think ever happened,Nor EBU took any action,nor stopped the spreading,it is what it is,no matter how you spin it.
It will end and if happens, have to suck it up.

kebien said:

For example,if you study the paper just a bit you will find out the question to symulcrypt 2 biss versions are not really possible,since Biss2 keys are dynamically changed in the stream,while Biss1 session key last the whole session and is manually inserted,it could never keep up with the changes by phone or mail.

Click to expand...

More fundamentally (& correctly), the reason simulcrypt BISS1/2 isn't possible is that the elementary streams are encrypted with DVB-CSA for BISS1, and DVB-CISSA for BISS2 - two distinct scrambling schemes.

Dynamically changing keys with BISS-CA is an option for BISS2, not the norm. There'll still be SW & E-SW static keys in other modes.

campag5242 said:

More fundamentally (& correctly), the reason simulcrypt BISS1/2 isn't possible is that the elementary streams are encrypted with DVB-CSA for BISS1, and DVB-CISSA for BISS2 - two distinct scrambling schemes.

Dynamically changing keys with BISS-CA is an option for BISS2, not the norm. There'll still be SW & E-SW static keys in other modes.

Click to expand...

And I already said Biss1 could only symulcrypt with any encryption with constant CW only (fixed key as you mentioned).

I thought DVB-CISSA (Common IPTV Software-oriented Scrambling Algorithm) was made for iptv as its name implies,rather than for satellite,maybe I read it wrong?
CSA3 would be the satellite equivalent,it was my interpretation of the situation.
As I read is some other paper
****One alternative being the CSA3, and the other being the CISSA algorithm. Both
of the proposed algorithms use the AES algorithm as a base. The CSA3 combines
AES128 with a secret cipher, the XRC, while CISSA uses the AES cipher in a
feedback mode. The different utilizations makes CSA3 hardware friendly and
CISSA software friendly.****

So I doubt satellite will use any kind of software encryption,CISSA is designed to easly decode with CPU,in phones,PC,and so on.Still we do not have a clue what will be used in satellite,only time will tell

A good read here
http://www.diva-portal.se/smash/get/diva2:753441/FULLTEXT01.pdf

BISS, game over???

Hello, as you probably know, new BISS encryption version called BISS2-CA was published and validated by EBU. Main differences between BISS and BISS2-CA is that new version is based on rolling keys instead of fixed keys. So, any attempt to find right key will become totally unuseful, because keys would work for just few seconds. Not sure, but I believe it's similar to Tandberg encryption. So, I'm afraid that game is going to over. Anyone knows when EBU will switch to this new encryption? Thanks.

Sorry I did not see this thread. Yes, no need to open new one, my mistake.

Let's come back an year from now to see if it ended.
Still there will be crying all through that time.

First one spotting the new Biss stream gets a price.

kebien said:

Let's come back an year from now to see if it ended.
Still there will be crying all through that time.

First one spotting the new Biss stream gets a price.

Click to expand...

Maybe we did it with this week's live WWE feeds from London?
Confirmation needed of course. Barney may tell.

The only way to confirm is to post a full TS,or the CAT and PMT packets to analyze.(better a full TS,though)
But I thought we were coming back here in june 2019,no need to update this thread until new biss is spotted somewhere,pointless to talk about it.

I will add some basic biss2 support to oscam-emu, so we can tell if a feed is actually biss2.