Blind scan receivers for feed hunting

Blind scan receivers for feed hunting: part-2

I have been testing the latest software for the TM5302HD here is my report after the recent upgrade,

Download file #1 : Phantompatch-HD_5302_24AUG2012.tbn (5.4MB)
Good work by all at TM to achieve this improved level of a blind scan receiver,

Blind search functions ok now you can choose start & stop search working again,
(use one polarity at a time for more reliable blind scans,)

Satellite names list has been updated without corrupting the blind scan this issue,

I have tested the Blind scan on 16 east,10 east,3 east,24.5 west all active Ku band transponders found.

All new transponders go into the database in sequence as with previous issue,

Tuner loop out at OFF = On to loop through to another tuner (so not a problem that needs sorting) as I have got used to this,

TS info is the best of any non professional HD satellite receiver:

Pressing info button x1 to get satellite,frequency,polarization,symbol rate,modulation (S1 S2)FEC + CAS type,

Press info button x2 then press the blue button to show all Video & audio data such as MPEG-2 MPEG-4 & bit rates,

Press info button x2 then press the yellow button for Network id video & audio pids DVB & Modulation type,Frequency,Symbol Rate & FEC + CAS type.

Additional features that have proved very useful is the ability of the TM5302HD to delete all transponders in advanced search this makes blind searching much easier starting will an empty data base for quicker blind scans of the active part of the Ku band 10950 to 11200 + 11450 to 11700 + 12500 to 12750 + the capability to search any part of the Ku band & C band,

(This receiver is an ideal candidate to re issue at a later date with 4:2:2 capabilities + Codex,)

Currently this my receiver of choice when compiling satellite charts for flysat & lyngsat so the latest upgrade to the blind scan has proved very useful.

No this receiver TM5302HD does not do 4:2:2,

This is just my suggestion to the manufacturer to possibly upgrade this receiver with a new receiver release as it would be on all feed hunters list of HD satellite receivers to have.

Suggested name of the proposed new receiver is "TM 5422 HD" the one that does everything :thum:

AZBoxPremium+HD Blind Scan

The AZBox is still the best blind scan receiver for feed hunting no competition as the only receiver to do 4:2:2 despite claims by others that proved false,

You would have thought that by now there would be an enthusiasts receiver that supported what was currently being transmitted by the satellites not only normal DVB-S2/DVB-S QPSK, 8PSK which is supported by normal satellite receivers,

But also ACM, VCM, Multi Input Stream, 16APSK and 32APSK mode, which most professional satellite receivers cover,

With built in hardware blind scan feature allows scanning of unknown satellite transponder with symbol rate as low as 200ksps, while most satellite receiving device can receive no less than 1Msps symbol rate,

The AZBox goes as low as 800Ksps as it has better software but is a bit temperamental & locks up at times also the channel changing function is not very responsive & this is the best of the HD receivers for Enthusiasts that is currently available,

We know that the lucrative end of the market is for cheap HD boxes that can cover all cards plus record & playback programs this is the mass produced boxes that nearly all come from the Middle East,

The Technology is there for a satellite receiver to do so much more than the current limitations most HD satellite receivers have,

To start with a stored search program for each satellite would open up our hobby to the complete novice that does not know & soon looses interest after scanning a satellite such as IS-905 @ 24.5 west where a quick scan of the active parts of the Ku band 10950 to 11200 & 11450 to 11700 would prove a quicker route than the 10700 to 12750 that a novice would try.

If these receivers had faster circiuts then the blind scan times would come down as current scanning by some blind scan receivers is painfully slow taking 3 to 6 minutes to scan 10950 to 11200 on 10 east where 30 secs is possible with higher grade memory & chip sets with the capability to cope with this the Enthusiasts HD receiver will cost 2 to 3 times a normal HD receiver & most Enthusiasts would pay for this if it worked ok.

Blind scan speed & reliability test on HD receivers

Blind Scan Speed test using one polarity
10 east 12500 to 12750H
1/Spiderbox 9000HD 8 MHz steps in 2 min 5 sec
2/TM6900HD Combo 4 MHz steps in 1 min 23 sec
3/AZBox Premium+ 5MHz steps in 2 min 3 sec
4/TM5302HD 3 MHz steps in 2 min 15 sec

I will rate the Spiderbox 9000HD as the best in this test as it found more active transponders the symbol rate is more accurate (you must delete all dead transponders before you perform a blind scan)

TM6900HD was faster but when the receiver finds transponders within 3MHz the previous symbol rate found is over written with the next symbol rate also the receiver is prone to produce false transponders when a transponder is within 8MHz of the newly found tp,

AZBox Prem+ is 3rd although it finds the same as the Spiderbox HD the setting up procedure is a bit slower as to find all active transponders you need to set up a new satellite for each scan otherwise you will not find all active transponders the bonus with this receiver is the inclusion of 4:2:2 transmissions,

TM5302HD easier to set up than the others blind scan receivers as you can wipe out the data base by deleting all transponders on a satellite before the blind scan,
However there are still some problems with the blind scan some of the selections do not work properly but you should find most of the active transponders using 3MHz scan = 2200 to 45000 symbol rate or 6MHz 4500 to 45000,

The 4MHz & 5MHz Blind scans on the TM5302HD have a problem they start ok then end the scan & find only 10% of the active transponders,selections above 8MHz scan are of little use for feed hunting as most of the active transponders are between 2200 & 6800 symbol rates,The 1MHz is very slow & finds the same active transponders as the 2MHz scan that does find a few transponder below 2200 this is useful on 42 east & 11 west,

I have not included the TM5402HD due to the ongoing symbol rate fault that creates a transponder with a s/r of 45,000 when a low symbol rate is active.

This concludes the Blind scan speed & reliability test.

You are best to use 2 receivers here are some combinations to consider:

Spiderbox9000HD with AZBoxP+
TM1500CI+Super with AZBoxP+
TM6900HD Combo with AZBoxP+

The 1st receiver drives the motorised dish & the AZBoxP+ is fixed to allow adding of new Blind Scan satellites.

Please note:

Of the blind scan receivers tested by me only the Spiderbox HD & TM6900HD have a working CAS & Biss,

Only the Spiderbox has a working Ethernet on all software issues,

The AZBox P+ is used by me as just a blind scan receiver with no CAS or Biss plug-ins,

The TM5302HD has no working CAS or Biss also the DiSEqC motor control do not work (the receiver after 20 software upgrades is still not suitable for general use)

So I just used as a fixed unit to give FEC & Modulation type in compiling satellite charts as that is about all it is good for,

I am beginning to think that the TM5302HD is based on the Enthusiasts Manhattan HD project that was abandon a couple of years ago ( I was on the Beta test list to try out the new Manhattan HD receiver but after 3 rebuilds they gave up )

No wonder it never surfaced as a Manhattan HD as it is unbelievable unstable,

Well hopefully one day someone will make an Enthusiasts HD receiver that we can all be proud of my money is on a design similar to the SpiderboxHD + 4:2:2 with codex & a TBS-6925 tuner that can handle 32APSK, 16APSK, CCM, VCM, ACM modulated feeds :thum:

H.264 video format & the next generation of satellite receivers

What is a Codec?
If you're going to understand online video, you need to understand codecs. Here's a high-level look at what codecs are, as well as the variety of codecs relevant to streaming media.

Codecs are the oxygen of the streaming media market; no codecs, no streaming media. From shooting video to editing to encoding our streaming media files for delivery, codecs are involved every step of the way. Many video producers also touch the DVD-ROM and Blu-ray markets, as well as broadcast, and codecs play a role there as well.

Though you probably know what a codec is, do you really know codecs? Certainly not as well as you will after reading this article. First we’ll cover the basics regarding how codecs work, then we’ll examine the different roles performed by various codecs. Next we’ll examine how H.264 became the most widely used video codec today, and finish with a quick discussion of audio codecs.

Codec Basics
Codecs are compression technologies and have two components, an encoder to compress the files, and a decoder to decompress. There are codecs for data (PKZIP), still images (JPEG, GIF, PNG), audio (MP3, AAC) and video (Cinepak, MPEG-2, H.264, VP8).

There are two kinds of codecs; lossless, and lossy. Lossless codecs, like PKZIP or PNG, reproduce the same exact file as the original upon decompression. There are some lossless video codecs, including the Apple Animation codec and Lagarith codec, but these can’t compress video to data rates low enough for streaming.

In contrast to lossless codecs, lossy codecs produce a facsimile of the original file upon decompression, but not the original file. Lossy codecs have one immutable trade-off–the lower the data rate, the less the decompressed file looks (or sounds) like the original. In other words, the more you compress, the more quality you lose.

Lossy compression technologies use two types of compression, intra-frame and inter-frame compression. Intra-frame compression is essentially still image compression applied to video, with each frame compressed without reference to any other. For example, Motion-JPEG uses only intra-frame compression, encoding each frame as a separate JPEG image. The DV codec also uses solely intra-frame compression, as does DVCPRO-HD, which essentially divides each HD frame into four SD DV blocks, all encoded solely via intra-frame compression.

In contrast, inter-frame compression uses redundancies between frames to compress video. For example, in a talking head scenario, much of the background remains static. Inter-frame techniques store the static background information once, then store only the changed information in subsequent frames. Inter-frame compression is much more efficient than inter-frame compression, so most codecs are optimized to search for and leverage redundant information between frames.

Early CD-ROM based codecs like Cinepak and Indeo used two types of frames for this operation: key frames and delta frames. Key frames stored the complete frame and were compressed only with intra-frame compression. During encoding, the pixels in delta frames were compared to pixels in previous frames, and redundant information was removed. The remaining data in each delta frame is also compressed using intra-frame techniques as necessary to meet the target data rate of the file.

The next phase in the evolution of MPEG-4 is well under way. MPEG-4,
the newest in a long line of successful worldwide multimedia standards,
now includes H.264 video. Providing higher content video in compact files, H.264

This is revolutionizing virtually every application that uses video, from mobile multimedia
to video conferencing to broadcast and satellite television.
What Is MPEG-4?

MPEG-4 is a multimedia standard with audio and video at its core. It was defined by the MPEG (Moving Picture Experts Group) committee, the working group in the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) that specifi ed the widely adopted,
Emmy Award–winning standards known as MPEG-1 and MPEG-2. MPEG-4 is the result of an international e∂ ort involving hundreds of researchers and engineers.

The initial parts of MPEG-4, whose formal designation is ISO/IEC 14496, were finalized in October
1998 and became an international standard in early 1999.
MPEG-4 was created to ensure seamless delivery of high-quality audio and video
over the Internet, on IP-based networks, and to a new generation of consumer digital
media devices. Because these devices range from narrowband cell phones to broadband set-top boxes to broadcast high-definition (HD) televisions, MPEG-4 provides
high-quality audio and video across the entire bandwidth spectrum.
Based on a time-tested technology
The ISO could have chosen to base its MPEG-4 standard on any existing file format, or
it could have created an entirely new format.

Designed from the ground up to be cross-platform and media diagnostic while providing stability, extensibility, and scalability,

A new processor is needed to encode, process, and play digital media on any MPEG-4–compliant device.

How to blind scan with an AZBox P+

murgy said:

how do blind scan with azbox?

Click to expand...

Blind Scan guidelines for:-
AZBox Premium Plus HD
AZBox ME HD
AZBox Mini ME HD

How to find more feeds faster with an AZBox with active blind scan
How to use the AZBox Premium+ or other AZBox's with an active blind scan as a Blind Scan receiver to find feeds,

As the AZBox is the only Satellite receiver to resolve 4:2:2 in dvb-s & dvb-s2 transmissions you will find more feeds to view than with any other Satellite receiver,

Leave the current data base as it is (0.9.5309) just add the new FEED satellites,

When you Blind Scan a Satellite add 2 to 4 for the same satellite position such as 10 east so that you find feeds quicker,

For example:
10 east Name=W2 for 10950 to 11200
---------------=W2B for 12500 to 12750
---------------=W2Z for 11200 to 11690
---------------=W2X for 10700 to 10950

If you blind scan 10950 to 11200 with satellite W2 then scan 11200 to 11690 with the same satellite W2 the blind scan will be slower as the scan will include all the transponders that you found in the data base on the 1st scan 10950 to 11200,

When you start a new feed session delete all channels if you only use the AZBox Premium+ for feed hunting,

To just delete the satellites feeds select "Delete Satellite channels" then just tick the feed satellites that you have added if you use the AZBox for Domestic tv as well,

Now go into settings **** data reset****delete all channels then delete the previous satellites that you set up last time on this satellite that you intend to search (10 east & add new satellites as above or where you have found active transponders on this satellite with another an HD blind scan receiver.)

The best & quickest way to find all feeds is to just delete the Satellite that you used on a previous session this is why it is best to add feed satellites as & when you require them then just delete the satellite when you start a new session,

The reason for this is that The AZBox with active blind scan will only find all the transponders on a satellite with an empty data base (for example if you have 10995H 5632 in your database from a previous blind scan & the transponder becomes active again as 10995H 6111 then your receiver will not find it as it already exists in the data base albeit with the wrong symbol rate.)

The purpose of this guide is to make your feed hunting more productive & much faster than it would be with say 100 transponders in the data base of which 75 are dead transponders as the data base will scan these & consequentially be much slower & find less active transponders than the empty data base method,

So just follow these instructions & you will find feed hunting much easier with the AZBox for active blind scanning,

I also use the AZBox as a fixed receiver using another HD receiver to drive the dish this is advisable if you only use the AZBox as a Feed Hunting only receiver,

This is one of the best blind scan receiver to have for feed hunting,

Just remember that you will find most transponders with an empty data base using 5Hz steps,

All low symbol rate transponders found using 3Hz steps.

You can also set the minimum symbol rate that works at 500c/ps lower than any other satellite receiver to my knowledge.

Update:-

The TM5302HD has a more stable data base now although still not perfect,

The AZBox P+ no support for this receiver now not much clearing these days in 4:2:2 with the advent of Codecs & combinations of new video formats make the AZBox P+ pretty useless,

Nothing new has turned up worth a mention just newer models of previously mentioned receivers in this thread:-

SpiderboxHD9900 but no support now & ceased production,
TM6902HD T2 very good blind scan receiver good support,
TM5502HD very good blind scan receiver but no 4:2:2,

I have searched World Wide for Enthusiasts Satellite Receivers but as 80% of the Worlds production is to build cheap satellite receivers with more Ethernet offerings such as YouTube & IPTV not much in the way of supporting new video formats now in use by SNG links,

Linux has been disappointing as it could do so much more maybe Enigma 3 will be the next Enthusiasts receiver :thum:

luco44 said:

Hi all

Do you know if TM5402HD M3 will add 4.2.2 later please ?

Click to expand...

No not possible re TM due to hardware restrictions

luco44 said:

Ok, do you know terminal which accept 4.2.2 please ?

Click to expand...

Please explain what you mean,

The only way to watch 4:2:2 with advanced codecs is via a pc card

http://www.tbsdtv.com/products/tbs6925-dvb-s2-tv-tuner-pcie-card.html

Streaming back to your pc is another way but only if the signals are fta.