T90 dish + 16 LNBs [15 Twin + 1 Quadro] + 2x Centauri 16/1 switches!!!

gorski

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Good questions...

I have no choice, since it's in the apartment contract that an insured professional must do the job.

Plus, I have not exactly done something this complex yet, although I have witnessed the first one I owned. But it was too cold and I wasn't there all the time.

This time I am learning in detail, being there every step of the way, documenting it, so next one... if at all possible... ;)

I have had the whole Hispasat, as an extreme sat position, in Stockholm and plenty of Astra 2 (28E) without the BBC transponders. So, I am hopeful it will be OK... I think this baby does more than advertised. It does get 1.5 degrees difference through the single LNB. I have tested it in Stockholm and it works. One degree difference is as if it is the same position! :)

We'll see... In the meantime, here is a little bit of help for the brave, daring to try it themselves... :D

Did I mention we had a few screws surplus?:eek: Two of them we can account for but a few others.....:rolleyes: hmmmm.... :p
 

gorski

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Thanx to Duwgati and Henksat:thum::clapping:;)

Code:
http://dreambox.hemertje.com/index.php/en/installation/57-wavefrontier
Installation Wavefrontier by Duwgati
This page handles the installation process of one Wavefrontier dish with 12 LNB's.

Which hardware do you need:
Well, have a look at the diagram:

diagram.jpg


As you can see, you need 1 diseqc switch for every 4 LNB's.
If you have only 4 4 LNB's, one diseqc is then enough, you can connect the cable directly from your Dreambox to your switch.

But when you have more then 4 LNB's, you'll need more then 1 switch as shown in the diagram. With the Dreambox it is possible to setup a installation like this using a special switch between the diseqc's. In the diagram it is the Spaun.

Setup the dish including the LNB's and aim it all correctly so that you receive a signal on every LNB you have. Now you can setup the Dreambox. It is good to do some prepared work.

To install the Wavefrontier it is good to use the tool "Wavefrontier LNB settings installation sheet", made by Holles. This tool calculates the position of the LNB from the wanted satellites on the Wavefrontier rail so mounting these will make life much easier, see the pictures! You can download this tool via our downloadsection.

wavefrontier-calculator-1.jpg


wavefrontier-calculator-2.jpg


Make a list for your own with all satellites you can receive now. Also write down on which LNB it is received and which diseqc channel it is connected.

Some note's:
- the Dreambox starts counting the LNB's with 0
- diseqc channels are not nuimberd with 1 till 4 but with A/A, A/B, B/A and B/B

Mine LNB-configuration (12 LNB's) looks likes follows:

Code:
Satellite[CENTER]LNB
Diseqc # 
Switch # [/CENTER]
Astra[CENTER]0
A/A
1[/CENTER]
Hotbird[CENTER]1
A/B
1[/CENTER]
Sirius[CENTER]2
B/A
1[/CENTER]
Hispasat[CENTER]3
B/B
1[/CENTER]
Eutelsat W2 [CENTER]4
A/A
2[/CENTER]
Eutelsat W1[CENTER]5
A/B
2[/CENTER]
Eutelsat W3 [CENTER]6
B/A
2[/CENTER]
Thor[CENTER]7
B/B
2[/CENTER]
Telecom 2C [CENTER]8
A/A
3[/CENTER]
Intelsat 705 [CENTER]9
A/B
3[/CENTER]
NSS 803[CENTER]10[/CENTER]
          [CENTER]B/A
3[/CENTER]
Intelsat 605 [CENTER]11
B/B
3[/CENTER]

In this list you can see everything you need to setup the configuration.
 
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gorski

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1,553
Configuration of your Dreambox:
When there is allready a settingslist in the box go to the satellietconfiguration-menu. If you don't know how to do it look here.

If you did not load a settingslist into the box (or when you did erase it), the Dreambox will ask you a few questions:

- which language you want to use
- the timezone you are in
- which diseqc configuration you use

This last question gives you three possibilities to choose from:
diseqc-config.jpg


- 1 single satellite (no diseqc)
- 1 diseqc (Simple)
- complex diseqc configuration

Choose the first option, 1 single satellite.

I know that you have more satellites/LNB's, but we are gonna do a trick to make the setup more easier.

It can be that you receive a warning that the diseqc configuration is not correct. If it is so you will see:

diseqc-error.jpg


Press "Ja" or "Yes" to delete the old setup.

The satelliteconfiguration-menu, will now look like this:

enkele-sat.jpg


Now you have more options to realise the setup. I'll explain only one now, I think it is the fastest way to do it.

Choose from the upper menu the pre-last option.
In this German version it is "Mehrere Satelliten mit DiSEqC Rotor".

rotorconfig.jpg


It is not correct, beacause you don't have a rotor, but it is a fast way to setup all satellite-positions in the menu and to delete the unused satellites. It is more comfortable then to add all satellites by hand.

It depends on the number of LNB's you have to add or to delete them.

If you prefere to add them one by one, just choose the last option: "Nicht Standard - benutzerdefinierte Konfiguration".

I assume you used the DiSEqC Rotor option, you'll see the satellite list:

rotorsats.jpg


Now the moment has come to declare which satellites you can receive or not. Delete the satellites you can't receive. You can do this to select the satellite and press the red lame button.

LNB- and Switch-configuration:
After deleting the wright satellites you must fill in onhow the LNB can be activated.

Oké, with the Excel list with you, we go addept the configuration in the Dreambox.

Click on the first satellite. It is the satellite who is connected to LNB 0.

PAY ATTENTION: You must addept the list following the LNB setup by number. So start with LNB 0 and follow your list.

Once you selected the first satellite, you'll see this screen.

lnb-config-01.jpg


Here you fill in the correct LNB number. Standard they are all at 0, so it has to be changed. That's why a list is very handy. Did you change the number? Select the blue button and you see the next screen.

lnb-config-02.jpg


Do not change Toneburst. It is not used in this configuration. The Diseqc modus must be changed. So click on the Diseqc modus and see the possibilities.

lnb-config-03.jpg


Choose the diseqc version 1.1 (NOT the version 1.2 as shown in this EXAMPLE). Now you see even more possibilities.

lnb-config-04.jpg


Addept the following setups:

- DiSEqC Parameter - the diseqc number in your list (diseqc #)
- Uncommitted Switch - the switch number from your list (switch #)
- further select the option 8 ("Kommandos tauschen)

Leave other options as they are.

Press the green button to save the settigs. Repeat it for all satellites (LNB's) you have.

When you're finished with all this do an automatic transpondersscan, or load a complete settingslist.
 

gorski

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Here under you see an example of a wavefrontier, thanks to P. Spelt, with 14 LNB's for the satellites:

- Astra 2/28,2E-arabsat26E (via an extra clamp!)
- Astra 23,5-astra 23
- Astra 19,2E
- Eutelsat 16E
- Hotbird 13E
- Eutelsat 10E
- Eutelsat 7E
- Sirius 5E
- Thor 1W-sat 0,8W
- Telecom 5W
- Telecom 8W
- Telstar 15W
- Intelsat 24W
- Hispasat 30W (via an extra clamp!)

wavefrontier-1.jpg


wavefrontier-2.jpg


wavefrontier-3.jpg
 

RimaNTSS

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Messages
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There is mine about 4 years ago. Question mark means 31*E. From that time I have mooved to another place and also have changed setup of T90 (several times).
 

gorski

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Here it is, kinda finished, albeit not really 100% but still... much better than nothing... Mind, I'd love to have seen more for the money I paid
girl_cray2.gif
but...
encantado.gif


We keep rockin'...
chilillo.gif
 

Jojo bizarre

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Messages
60
Crazy setup! & crazy man :D too much satellites at one time, thousands of channels :D
The dish is first pointed to what satellite? Hot bird?
I don't think with this setup you get optimum signal reception for every satellite, maybe some compromises.
& I think all this is expensive :(
 

gorski

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1,553
Bizarre, indeed... :D You have strong opinions before trying it out...:nana:

Besides, depends on where you are and what you wanna get. You're not gonna get UK in Cyprus without 2.5m dish, for sure...

So, you need to be a lot more careful, man... ;)
 
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Jojo bizarre

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Bizarre, indeed... :D You have strong opinions before tring it out...:nana:

Besides, depends on where you are and what you wanna get. You're not gonna get UK in Cyprus without 2.5m dish, for sure...

So, you need to be a lot more careful, man... ;)


Surely your setup is amazing :rolleyes: I mean you didn't just bought material & install it directly.
You studied the setup technically in every way then you installed it :) that's what impressed me most :thum:


Check out the first post to learn how to point, set the inclination, tilt etc.

I'll check it out meticulously :p




I think a fiber optic installation will bring your setup to the next level :eek:
 

satesco

Feed Hunter
Messages
2,048
Hi gorsky,

The dish looks impressive.Congratulations for your success.I know what it means to install toroidala with 16 LNBs because myself I installed one.
I want to know what is the quality of the signal from the satellites on the peripheral,east and west extremes,on toroidala, LNBs that are fitted to the last on the track?What is the maximum and the minimum signal on these LNBs?
best regards :thum:
 

gorski

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Messages
1,553
Jo-Jo, I might think about that when we move again, thanx... ;) Many receivers in the house might need it. Just what kind of switch then? :D

Satesco, around 53% on 28E, here in Luxembourg. I have almost all TPs, including BBC, ITV, Ch4 and Ch5! No BBC Streams, for instance...

At 30W, as I mentioned, SIC Radical and NBA can be lost in bad weather, for instance... But I have most of them.

There is a difference in installation here and my previous installation in Stockholm, where I had most of 30W but no BBC etc. on 28E, as expected.

But I did not expect to have problems with 30W here... Still investigating...
 
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gorski

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Well, if you want to set it up, little by little... you can even buy it, little by little...

From piecing together T90, in your living room, not the whole construction but major parts - it's fun!
z4dwink.gif


T90 costs less than €100, a really good quality, rust-free pole about €50, depending on length, chimney construction around €30 or so (one package has 2 but I ordered two packages, so you see 4 pieces on the chimney). A really good quality Titanium 0.1 dB twin LNB by Smart around €11 (see how many you need), 16in1 Centauri switch is around €40, best cable 130 dB is not very expensive, either...

Can you borrow a measuring instrument?

If not, do as I did when I wanted to help out, while waiting for a sick installer to come back and finish the job: I took my LED monitor and Ferrari500HD with PBNIGMA to the roof and I had fun getting the best possible signal or even getting a signal at all on some positions... This is the best - if you do not have a sat-signal meter!

But you can also do it by connecting your smart-phone and E2 machine, since there is this Krkadoni app for it (find it on their website).

http://www.krkadoni.com/log/index.php/enigma-signal-meter-krkadoni-edition/

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.krkadoni.app.signalmeter

5QMQZl1svIT6Ds-wZJ2LpTPg-SD0WTRkC5W3FbbWPhtUrBAH8nB_n1rlzOWtplBhrA=w705


Well, if you have a smart-phone running Android OS, add the following apps to your Android smart-phone:

Protractor (to get the correct angle).

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.oxdb.Protractor&hl=en

-pYdoe8VzKIaoyWhQU0AYrten-wcFX-lScjPsoxX1bi0hCal_aQExRp23fWHy6Vvzw=h230


Satfinder (needs Wi-Fi connection, I think, to work) to get the general direction, in relation to your house/building.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.esys.satfinder&hl=en

LHgU9Wv9iO1pC2lEbrPgwSSLH6qLcN8zcWeAaWp0OxZjc6DTutLsA6tg6IPNIzHktO8=h230


Gravitometer (inclination or up-down/forward-backward, kinda nodding one's head [pitch] i sideways tilt [roll]).

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ElectricSeed.Gravitometer&hl=en

i0fN5uJaSZYyQYa39tceeTquPNmsUdS1VD6OuG4SGhigwKzTXOpGRkeIG2Dbmi6QBC0


You put your smart-phone at the back of your T90 (you will see the only place to do this) and you see the inclination and tilt.

Sugar at the end: the one I attach to this post has been persuaded to "simply install", hehe...
laugh.gif
And it is the best! You put the smart-phone in front of the dish or just above it, so you can see the sky clearly and it gives you the direction/position of all the major satellites (I was 4/5 floors up from my wireless router and it worked)!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dishpointer.dparpro&hl=en

yaX421lGP0Gk_mWAMQSPOQca3U_-XjPiEGd-M_bKDtRmr4CmHW2CE5RPR4KFSxPIDIY=w705


Just follow the instructions on the Satlex webiste!!! They give you the numbers to achieve for the exact spot of Earth you occupy! Here is an example for Berlin:

http://www.satlex.de/en/wavefrontie...name=Berlin&la=52.52&lo=13.29&country_code=de

Good luck!
23.gif
 

gorski

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1,553
Hi Gorski!
Interesting project! Your chimney will look like Christmas tree with all those brackets, T90 and lots of wires.

Indeed. I had some trouble with the property/house manageress because of it, In her ignorance, she accused me of turning the apartment into a commercial premises, as if I am supplying sat TV to half of Luxembourg (an idea that I abhor!!!)... :D Aggressive and arrogant, despite (or because?) of her ignorance... Hmmm... I called her and yelled at them all at the office! :D Then, I sent an angry email... No response... :D (FFS!!! Some people...:rolleyes:) She could have simply asked me for clarification and I would have explained, for umpteenth time - but oh, noooo... Why not be a bitch, if she can help it... Grrrr!!!

I am little bit skeptical about getting good signals on far-East and far-West sats. 32 is far off standard T90 LNB rail, and on that distance antenna performs like maybe 30-40cm offset.

See one of the previous answers of mine, re. what I get and what I don't get... It's not bad at all. Almost all of 28E and quite a bit from 30W!

I also do not like idea of getting 2 sats on one LNB, especially 11*W and 12,5*W. Suspect that on 18*W is only C-band signals (maybe I am wrong).

I didn't manage with 11 and 12.5! But that might be thanx to the installer...? Dunno... Others work fine, like 7 and 8W. 10 and 9E are not that successful but again, the installer is not that experienced, so... We need a rail in the middle, not the standard T90 LNB holder and then it would work, as it did in Stockholm!

No 18 but 15W, in the end... Plus 24.5, 27.5 and 30W, in that corner...

So you plan to give to family 16 sats and play yourself with only 4?! Should be opposite.

You were right and I changed it: the central STB has 16 + 4 switches feeding it and my station has 16 also... ;)

And final question, maybe silly one, but: Why you waiting for installer and not DIY?

Experience, as I mentioned earlier. But I watched carefully, helped out, documented, took many photos, worked on it myself a great deal, so I am ready to try on my own, next time we move... ;)

But to check is your antenna installed properly just control is there reception on 30*W and 28,5*E, if any signal there, than antenna is mounted right.

Not quite. It can still be done better or worse. For instance, in Stockholm I had better reception of 30W than in Luxembourg.

Why? Maybe the chimney corner is a bit crooked, so not 100% straight...? In fact, that is most likely the cause...

Anyway, would be interesting to see results. Good luck.

It sure is... Finally... A year later... :)
 

Jojo bizarre

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Aloha gorski! :rolleyes:

It doesn't look expensive as I thought before :eek: great !

Also great thanks for tips & apps they will surely make life easier when setting up a dish :)
 

RimaNTSS

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I didn't manage with 11 and 12.5! But that might be thanx to the installer...?
I think your installer is not so guilty. For 11*W and 12,5*W I would rather use 2 separate LNBs instead of trying to find compromise on one LNB.
Maybe the chimney corner is a bit crooked, so not 100% straight...?
Also no blame on crooked chimney, it is possible to perfectly align T90 even if pole is not perfectly vertical. In that case theoretically calculated 3 main T90 angles and positions of all LNBs will be different. However, IMHO, perfect alignment of T90 is impossible, theoretically yes but not practically.
I have this antenna for almost 9 years and that was actually my first antenna, so spent a lot of time playing :mecry:. Moved several times, re-installed completely many times, wiring, re-wiring, adding/removing LNBs, modding etc. Now, I think, T90 more or less settled in my SAT-playground (among another 5, sometimes more, antennas) and connected to overall wiring diagramm to 3 receivers with 6 SAT-tuners. But it still not perfectly aligned :confused:
Almost finished.... compromises in antenna alignment mean you will not get perfect strength of some signals, especially if there are HD channels, in some cases you will simply do not get them at all. But if main idea of installing T90 was to get as much satellites revived and with some compromises, than this goal could be achieved.
Anyway, good planning and way of thinking. Good job of you and your installer.
 

gorski

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Moved to Italy, to a rented apartment, so must improvise before we start buying a house and I can do something permanent, in terms of satellite setup, maybe T90 for the family and a motorised dish for me (SuperJack 12 inch or so?)...

I am thinking something like this might do the trick, for now...

Spriesse--5-.JPG


Then, this goes on top of that, using some clamps...

10240060.jpg


And then the coloured stuff goes on top of that...

index.php


Heh, wish me luck...:D
 
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