C-Band/Ka-Band Reception in the UK (Dish Project: LNBs, Dish, Alignment) - Post your results here...

empb

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A friend will be re-installing/re-aligning my Dish next month as I am sick of getting nothing from 4W, when I know I used to get some of the Beams (also lost ENTV on 5W).

My East Arc is set up stronger at Present (Badr4 26E superb even in bad weather). But I think we Aligned on 13E and adjusted on 26E last time, need to do it right on 0.8W/1W this time (my reception Satellite Arc is generally 45E to 46W (telegraph pole obstructing a big arc).

I seem to remember the Baltic Beams were the weakest receivable ones in the UK at 0.8W/1W but I can't remember the frequencies to use, can anyone help? (11747H ?, 12687H ?)

I'm using a Triax TD110, location North West England & will prob replace the LNB and use a Inverto Quad LNB to supply my Topfield twin tuner, Manhattan twin tuner, Spiderbox HD9000 and Humax HD receivers.

I am also considering adding C-Band but it would be an offset LNB ie something like:

televesholder.jpg


don't know what type of arm but would be Ku-Band Prime, C-Band offset, anyone think this would work for 3.3E C-Band in the UK and any other C-Band between 46E and 31.5W (e.g. 5W, 20W)
 

empb

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Lyngsat only gives you a general info (eg dBW / EIRP) based on manufactures supplied footprint info, satellite manufactures supplied infos. (Although some information is based on there own reception reports, which I believe are London based, not North West England).

Weakest signal (beams was prob the wrong word to use!!! :eek:) depend on your location, which is why I mentioned Location: North West England.
 

uydudunyasi

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Keep the LNBs as close as possible to use as much as the dish/signal as possible ie:

cappuccino99 said:
No one said it doesn't work, but getting the C band closer to the KU in the focus by losing the feedhorn is a better trade off on a smaller dish, I've fitted several of the C Band offset feedhorn designs & tested them with or without feedhorns and unless you have a serious interference problem you'll be better off on a small dish without it to get closer to the focus, you make a feedhorn that has a cut out for the ku though, even better.

Properly installing the LNBF on your dish is critical. After attaching the scalar ring to your support arms, you should confirm that it is pointing to the center of your dish. One way to do this is to measure from the edge of your dish to the edge of the scalar ring in several places around your dish. These measurements should be the same. If not, your feed is not pointing to the center of your dish and will not perform as intended.
After finding a signal, turn the LNBF to find the best polarity performance. Do this on both polarities. Carefully move the C-Band LNB toward the dish and away from the dish to find the best operating distance. After finding the best possible performance tightens the set screw to hold the LNBF in place.
 

mdt

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cappuccino99 said:
you shouldn't miss 3E:

EUTELSAT_3A_C-band_Regional_Downlink_Coverage.png


And a good one to start with. I'd forget the c band lnb's feedhorn even if it is an offset one, just don't fit it so you can get them as close as possible as you are pushing it on C Band on a 1.1. Also cover the C Band lnb's cap with plastic to make it waterproof as C Band lnbs are designed for prime focus dishes which means they always face down so only usually have drain holes but on offset dishes they point upward.

You can make a second lnb holder easy enough for a c band lnb with a U bolt - 65mm I think (can't remember tbh).

In offset on a motorised it isn't as good as you move away from the top of the arc as if you use an inclined actuator & fit it above the ku lnb so you get all the focus (not easy on a Triax ) & at 1.m- 1.05m you are already on the limit. There's a lot of C Band up there though, don't forget there's circular & linear so access to swap the dielectric plate's not a bad idea either.

the 6 degree offset does work on a td110 although reception site is down south and he did use lightweight ku-band ultra lnb's. thanks to satellites.co.uk/@vipersan for the picture. regards mdt
 

mdt

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so your saying drop the scalar feed on a off-set arrangment for better results then? what about as a prime focus? ive been toying with the idea and have done alot of reading on it and results seem to vary with dielectric plate or no plate, pre-made scalar ring/home made scalar ring. ive got an old iss 1m here and im considering adding a c-band lnb for experiments as personally i dont like the off-set idea and adding an inclanation jack,v-box to my gibby 1.25 or td110 is beyond me although ive never seriously looked into it. what do you mean by make a feedhorn that has a cut-out for the ku? is it so you can add your ku lnb and c lnb on the same feed? regards mdt
 

uydudunyasi

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Yes:

cappuccino99 said:
on a smaller offset dish with a c band in offset - yes, just drop the feedhorn or do a cut out version- the hole that the ku band lnb's feed horn fills will do more or less the job of the bit that's missing anyway & cut a bit of the c feedhorn's scala rings away to make sure the ku can still see all the dish, should do 80%-90% of the original shielding wise - it would be the same for a prime focus & you had a side by side ku/c setup but obviously it's a flat feedhorn.

They wouldn't be in the same feed but still side by side, touching, although it's an idea & you do get combi's but they usually lose too much.

A dielectric plate converts the C Band LNB which is by default linear (H & V like a universal lnb) to circular (L & R). If you just put a 13k C Band LNB with or without feedhorn on the ISS 1m taped on the lnb holder focused & skewed correctly & aimed it at 3e (I'd use a ku band LNB to get the right aim 1st) you should pull in the horizontal C Band on there quite easily. The circular on there goes somewhere else otherwise you'd get that too with the plate inserted.
 

empb

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So as the majority of C-Band in the UK (on the Satellites mentioned earlier in this thread) have L / R circular polorization I would need to leave the dielectric plate fitted. Or remove it to get alignment with strong Linear 3E C-Band transmission and then re-fit it as I would want to get the circular L / R channels?

I also found this:
Code:
http://xxx.purplesat.com/index.php?p=1_88_C-BAND-IN-THE-UK
 

uydudunyasi

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Both:

cappuccino99 said:
You can receive circular or linear in an lnb with or without a dielectric plate if you can get enough signal in it, it will still impart so much of it's energy on the antenna and at that point it's the same to the lnb & receiver just as a horizontally polarized signal on a vertical antenna, if there's no conflict & it's strong enough to lock you can receive it.
There can be quite a difference with or without a dielectric plate for circular though & using a 1m dish you need every last drop but inserting a dielectric plate has it's own associated losses & leaving it in for linear is a bit like putting a pencil in front of the feedhorn, I think it's about 1/2 or -3dB, I'd just start with 3e linear c band, best place to start & that should come in next to a ku lnb on a motorised 1m.
 

empb

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Footprints from Lyngsat (thanks LilleMama for suggestion :thum:)

Eutelsat 5 West A @ 5°W (C-Band Coverage):

Eutelsat-5-West-A-C.png


Arabsat 5C @ 20°E (C-Band Coverage):

634483284171093750.jpg


Looking forward to testing C-Band @ 30.5E, 20E, 10E, 3.3E, 5W & 11W in the UK. Reading info I would hope to get something from 3.3E and the 2 at 5W, 20E whose footprints are shown above.
 

empb

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Are there any non DIY brackets with less than 6 degree between LNBs available that will work for 1 Ku-Band & 1 C-Band LNB, and what about weight issues on the LNB arm that I have read about issues with elsewhere?

I also read about LNBs which provide both C-Band and Ku-Band from the same LNB.

And how much signal is likely to be lost by not using the Dielectric Plate as obviously Linear H/V is required from the Ku-Band:
Dielec1.jpg
But Circular R/L is required from the C-Band.

Anyone got any feedback on C-Band LNBf's.....

The BSC621-2D Dedicated Universal C/Ku Band Linear LNB LNBf sounds good Linear Ku-Band & Circular C-Band in one LNB:

bsc621.png


Should your area require the Ku and C polarities be opposite you can follow these simple instructions to change your BSC621-2D C/Ku LNBF.

Separate the C and Ku housings by removing the three screws that hold them together.

Remove the LNBF from the Ku housing by removing the 'F' connector nut and pushing on the 'F' connector until the LNBF is pushed out of the housing. Use care not to damage the 'F' connector.

In the picture below, using the left slot will make your Ku polarity the same as your C polarities. Using the right hand slot will make your polarities opposing or reversed.

bsc621-2d-1.jpg


bsc621-2d-2.jpg


Conical Scalar with mounting bracket made for our HOTDISH90 offset dish but fits many other dishes. Use this Conical Scalar on the BSC421 or BSC422 with the HOTDISH90 and get C-band signals from the strong C-band satellites. Great for getting those C-band signals you always wanted without exceeding the 1 meter or smaller dish rule.

3 bolts to mount the scalar to the LNBF.

Includes the dish mounting bracket.

May also be used on the BSC-621-2D, BSC621-2, BSC621 and most LNBFs on the market.

conical-1.jpg


Anyone else tried a similar project? And give me some advice please?
 

rizwanawan

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Is there any Scalar ring needed for KU-Band ? , like Invacom LNB have. Mostly on prime focus Dishes, not on Off set :confused:
 

mdt

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Is there any Scalar ring needed for KU-Band ? , like Invacom LNB have. Mostly on prime focus Dishes, not on Off set :confused:

the feed is built into a lnbf or a matched feedhorn for the dish if using a c120 lnb. all lnbf,s have a scalar ring-feed inside them its that they are enclosed in plastic,regards mdt
 

AceB

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Don't bother with a dualband LNB, they're crap on Ku. ESX241 is a good performer for a C band LNB and cheap too. The dielectric plate that comes with it is OK but it's easy to make one that performs better. DoctorOfSat has a design that is a similar size but will give a couple of dB more to circular signals.

1-1.1m is really really small for C band, 3E will produce some signals, 20E, 5W, 40W, maybe 58W but not much more.
 

empb

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If I get some C-Band channels from the 4-5 satellites (3.3E, 20E, 5W & 11W) then its more than I am getting now. So for a day re-installing the dish and £30 quid or so for new LNBs and a another £60-80 for brackets (DIY or otherwise), Colins electrical engineering experience and scaffolding is worth it, for the hobby.

I've decided on the Smart Titanium Rocket Single Universal 0.1db LNB for Linear Universal Ku-Band and the BSC421 for Circular C-Band, can you give me more info on this "improved" dielectric plate..... any extra gain is good :) :thum:

Prob going to modify one of those metal multi LNB rails, unless the Twin version of the Multifeed allows the LNBs to be closer:

!BvwFv,QBmk~$(KGrHqMOKjcEveeZ11LiBMF4G02SBw~~_1.JPG
 

empb

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@EMPB do you have your td110 up again now? and if so are you having any luck? regards mdt

Not yet no :( booked the week off 15th to 23rd June (except Friday the 21st!!! Hopefully just phone in on the day!!!), scaffolding going up below the window/dish bracket line late next week.

Going for the Smart Titanium Rocket Single LNB for Ku-Band on the LNB arm and using a 4° Degree bracket*[/URL] fitting a DMS International BSC421 C-band LNB offset.

Align on Intelsat 10-02 @ 0.8°W with Ku-Band. Test Badr4 @ 26°E, then Test weak signals at Astra 4A @ 4.8°E (Viasat SoftN*D*S channels and MagiSat Biss channels) and then add the C-Band LNB on the 4° Degree offset to get the 3.3°E Eutelsat 3A/B/C(?) C-Band channels and then take it from there.

*In an ideal world but more than likely to be 4° Degree+ spacing (1W/3E etc) we will only find out when we get it up and get the LNBs as close together as we can........ :thum:

edit: copied from Encryptions Chat thread Eutelsat (2M MENA, 2M Monde, 2M National) 3.1°E
 

mdt

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check 7.3w and earth tv on 15west to peak the west side aswell,regards mdt

edit: moved from Encryptions Chat thread Eutelsat (2M MENA, 2M Monde, 2M National) 3.1°E
 

empb

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Never been able to catch anything from 7.3°W but I take it there are tp's on it like Badr4 that can be got in the UK?:

EUTELSAT_7WA_Ku-band_MENA_Downlink_Coverage.png


Been told in my neck of the woods 90cm-1m should be enough for strong tp's in good weather.

But yes will test 5°W & 15°W as well
 

mdt

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try 10.727.h.30000/10.758.v.27500/11.296.h.27500/11.431.v.27500/12.437.v.27500/12.467.h.27500. there are also a few txp,s on nilesat 102 but these are weaker still. i get 451 channels from 7.3 which hold up in normal rain. i dont bother with nilesat 102 really. you should also get a couple hundred channels off amos 2/3@4w aswell but these are slightly weaker for me.
 
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empb

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Well my Triax dish is back up on its wall mount bracket, set up at 1W/0.8W for now with just the Ku-Band Smart Titanium Rocket Single LNB.

Setting up the rest tomorrow.

Spiderbox HD9000 does not seem to operate Vertical High band correctly now? :mecry: High/Low Band, Vertical/Horizontal works on loop-through from my Topfield TF4000 PVR thou...

And meant to ask what material is best to waterproof the C-Band LNBf? :confused:
 
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